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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 8:48pm | IP Logged
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This thread is for discussion of the fourth Leadership Lab titled Partnering with Parents found in the Kidology Online Training area of the site.
Here we can discuss how this Lab has impacted your ministry or you can ask questions.
This is obviously a topic that is very close to my heart, so I'm looking forward to some great discussion. If the very thought of 'family ministry' and 'partnering with parents' stirs up feelings of failure and discouragement, I would encourage you to check out this installment of Kidology Online Training.
Purchase the accompanying Leadership Lab Download Kit for the complete training experience, at a special limited-time price. Save with this Coupon Code...Partnering with Parents Special - Save $5
That's only $34.99 for Kidology members!
For those of you how have experienced this Leadership Lab, how did it help or challenge you? Are there any questions that this lesson sparked?
Let's get talking! 
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Tannerman
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Steve Tanner - Kidology Web Director
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If you'd like to share the Introduction Video for this Leadership Lab ("Non-Negotiated Partnerships for Dummies"), it's not only available here on Kidology... you can also find it on YouTube, Facebook, and MySpace. So blog away!
- Steve
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PastorTMcKeever
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Kidology Champion
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Posts: 3527
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| Posted: 22 May 2008 at 7:18am | IP Logged
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There is a ton in this lab. It took me a while to even download everything. Thanks to Karl for all the time you must have put into this and thanks to Steve as I know that you too must have put a ton of time into getting this ready.
You two guys rock!!
__________________
Take T.W.O. Ministries, We lead in true Innertainment for the heart.
toddmckeever.com
My email
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4-His-kidz
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Kidology Champion
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Thanks so much for putting this together. I already know what family I will begin with in this, but hope to have others join us. I noticed that on the video you mentioned a couple of books, and I wanted to share one more with you that I think ranks as one of the best parenting books out there. It is Raising Kids For True Greatness: Redefine Success for You and Your Child, by Dr. Tim Kimmel. He also wrote Grace Base Parenting which I have not read yet.
I'm very excited about partnering with parents in our church.
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Tony Kummer
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I've read Tim Kimmel's Grace Based Parenting and it's very helpful for parenting and teaching kids at church.
Seeing Karl buried in all those books made me feel better about my desk situation!
These Leadership Labs look like a great investment. I'm saving some of my continuing ed budget to try one later this summer. Great work.
__________________
I'm a Children's Pastor from Madison, Indiana and blog at
Ministry-to-Children.com
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Tony Kummer
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| Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:30am | IP Logged
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OK - Just finished the video and wanted to post again to say great job. This is what I love about Kidology, you've taken a big scary concept and made it something we can all do in our ministries.
I love the idea of the VIP parents program that you mentioned at the end. At our church we've struggled between changing existing ministries or creating something new to be more intentional with parents. The opt-in VIP concept may be the perfect solution.
__________________
I'm a Children's Pastor from Madison, Indiana and blog at
Ministry-to-Children.com
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PastorTMcKeever
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Kidology Champion
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| Posted: 26 May 2008 at 8:15pm | IP Logged
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I found the changing of the vocabulary to asking parents how many kids are in their cm and then asking if you could help in their cm as something good to think about. What a change of thinking from people asking cp's how many kids are in our cm.
I told my wife next time someone asked me how many kids are in my cm I was going to say 2 (my son and daughter).
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Take T.W.O. Ministries, We lead in true Innertainment for the heart.
toddmckeever.com
My email
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Kidjoni
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Joni Lum, Kidology Champion
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Really appreciate your processing of this concept and the putting it all together in an easy to use/understand/read through package. REally well done! Will use as I formulate strategy/goals for next year.
Agree that we are a partnership, cm and parents. Always wondered, as we focus more on families, what happens to those without--can we still be inclusive without losing those who don't have believing parents? How do we do that?
__________________
Connecting Kids to Jesus
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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Thanks for the feedback! I'd love to hear from those who have purchased the download kit - what are your thoughts? challenges? questions? This is an important topic, let chew on it!
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Mingin
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I'm just beginning to work through it at the moment.
One thing that jumps to mind is that this year when we have our baptism/confirmation classes they will be for child and parent to work through together. That way the parents will clearly understand where their kid is at and be the one to make the decision whether or not they are ready and understand what they are doing.
What a joy for a parent. (More work for me, but I will be happy to do it that way) Maybe in a year or two I will be able to hand a prepared book to the parents and meet with them and their child just for a 'chat' rather than a 'class'
__________________
I do what I do because. . . Little Kids are a big deal to God
Megan
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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| Posted: 31 May 2008 at 1:44am | IP Logged
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Mingin wrote:
| One thing that jumps to mind is that this year when we have our baptism/confirmation classes they will be for child and parent to work through together. |
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If you need a helpful resource for this, be sure to check out NEXT STEPS FOR KIDS. It is a four week curriculum I wrote for this very purpose that is free for members. One of the four lessons is on baptism.
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Glen Woods
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Hi Karl,
I have been working through your lab on partnering with parents. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I really respect the thought and work you have put into this. I wish I had come across it when I first started in children's ministry leadership all those years ago. First, I wanted to say, "Finally, someone has come out and explained what partnering really ought to look like." Frankly, I long ago had grown weary of the term since it had no practical substance, other than as a punchline to an insider joke among children's ministers. But for the first time, I have taken a renewed interest in it. So, thank you.
I do have a few questions for you, if I may.
1. I am concerned that only parents who already are fairly high ownership will take an interest in this approach, leaving others behind who might benefit from it as well. Other than making a personal or public appeal, how do you disciple parents toward taking on this kind of VIP responsibility?
2. Fully 1/3 of the families with young children in my church are single parent households. As I review the list, I don't see any of them having margin enough to take on one more thing. Also, many of my kids come from section 8 homes which are multi-cultural and whose parents do not attend our church as of yet. How do you overcome that objection, or present it in a way that relieves their burden, rather than adding to it?
3. I have promised families that I will not add new programming to their (and my) already overloaded schedules. I realize this is an opt in relationship, but how do you do it in a way that people, including you (or me) don't get burned out? My frustration is that there are programs I am required to offer simply because the church is open for worhip or Bible study during those times. That is where most of my focus is placed with regard to volunteers, preparation, execution, followup, etc.
4. This part is probably in your lab, but I didn't find it right away: Do you have a time limit on the partnering relationship? That is, do you
agree upon how long it will last at this VIP level? Or, is it open-ended?
I really appreciate any help you can give me. I am going to pray seriously about how it might be introduced to my context.
__________________
Glen Woods
www.glenwoods.wordpress.com
Break camp and advance....
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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Thank you for the encouraging words! And these are some excellent questions, none of which have easy answers, but I'll give you some thoughts on each:
Glen Woods wrote:
1. I am concerned that only parents who already are fairly high ownership will take an interest in this approach, leaving others behind who might benefit from it as well. Other than making a personal or public appeal, how do you disciple parents toward taking on this kind of VIP responsibility?
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At first, yes, it will be those who are already highly committed that will respond - but I was surprised how many I would categorize that way who did NOT - I think they knew they didn't "need" it. And I was surprised how many DID respond who needed it. Perhaps they were drawn by the accountability and the promise to be challenged and provided with reminders and help, or just the Lord prompting them, but it wasn't all the "great" parents and none of those who I knew needed it. It was a healthy mix. As for promoting, ALL my promoting was personal. It was not hyped as a new "program." I launched it with the parent forums described in the Lab and as I talked with parents.
Glen Woods wrote:
2. Fully 1/3 of the families with young children in my church are single parent households. As I review the list, I don't see any of them having margin enough to take on one more thing. Also, many of my kids come from section 8 homes which are multi-cultural and whose parents do not attend our church as of yet. How do you overcome that objection, or present it in a way that relieves their burden, rather than adding to it?
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I had to make the decision that this wouldn't be "one more thing" - that it was going to become my focus - investing in those who genuinely partner with me and let a lot of the other "all church" stuff go. Many of the events I used to do for "everyone" now were ONLY for the V.I.P. families - and ironically, my attendance at these events grew. Single parents? They need it just as much!
As for kids without parents at church - this isn't the way to reach them. Other ministries will have to focus on that. HOWEVER, you could ask families to "adopt" some of those kids into their familes, or to invite them to events. I am speaking theoretically, this isn't something I've done, but it would be worth exploring in a situation where there are a large number of kids whose parents don't attend church.
Glen Woods wrote:
| 3. I have promised families that I will not add new programming to their (and my) already overloaded schedules. I realize this is an opt in relationship, but how do you do it in a way that people, including you (or me) don't get burned out? My frustration is that there are programs I am required to offer simply because the church is open for worhip or Bible study during those times. That is where most of my focus is placed with regard to volunteers, preparation, execution, followup, etc. |
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I'll admit this was a challenge. But I wouldn't promise families to not to add to their busy lives. As though church is an added burden. Investment in their children's spiritual development is paramount and I would constantly be challenging parents to put it first and if they need margin, to find it elsewhere, not by cutting church involvement. I'm all for "simple church" but I'm not for "church if my life has any room left." At some point we need to inspire parents that there is NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT that they do for their kids than to invest in their spiritual development and that once their kids are grown, they will never regret that they didn't provide more sports or education or social opportunities, but they most likely WILL regret not investing more in their spiritual life if they don't put that first. But then, even having said that, you do need to take a serious look at all the "activities" of the church and evaluate which are just for the sake of activities/programs and which are accomplishing the goal of equipping families to disciple their children? There are many GOOD things that ought to be canceled at church and replaced with things that are effective in our highest goals not just good at lower goals. ALSO, a lot of the V.I.P. activities DO NOT NEED TO BE AT CHURCH! They can be things you equip them to do at home, as I described in the Lab. The relationship is not so much "come to these events" but be involved in the programs we already have, invest intentionally in your kids at home (and here are some tools and ideas to help you) and occasionally have an event that brings them all together. 2-4 events a year is probably enough. The rest is happening in the homes, through communication like e-mail, and by home visitation. So it really can be not DOING much more, but doing what they already do SMARTER.
Glen Woods wrote:
4. This part is probably in your lab, but I didn't find it right away: Do you have a time limit on the partnering relationship? That is, do you
agree upon how long it will last at this VIP level? Or, is it open-ended?
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Yes, if I wasn't clear in the Lab, it is a one year commitment and then they are invited back. Some will return, others won't. They may not need it, or they may not be ready for it. But it is important to release them after a year. You won't want them to fizzle out or quit or feel like a failure. They can finish a year and feel good that they made the effort.
Also, for those who don't commit, its ok. Give them time. Many will join throughout the year as they hear about the benefits from those who are part of it. It will have a real grass roots effect.
I hope these answers help! Thanks for engaging, its a vital topic! I'm encouraged you see the need for a REAL definition for "partnering with parents" otherwise it does become the punchline for a discouraging joke.
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Glen Woods
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Kidologist wrote:
I hope these answers help! Thanks for engaging, its a vital topic! I'm encouraged you see the need for a REAL definition for "partnering with parents" otherwise it does become the punchline for a discouraging joke. |
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They really do help Karl. I appreciate the effort you put into responding to my questions. I finally feel like I see a glimpse of hope for moving my church forward in this regard. I would like to interview you either via email or phone later this month or in October, as I interpret the findings of my qualitative research. Basically I would give you a synopsis of my findings and ask you if it matches your experience. It would be "on the record" for use in the dissertation. Are you open to that? Let me know if you are and I will make a note of it. Thanks!
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Glen Woods
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Break camp and advance....
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wbman
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Tom Bump
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I sure have been challenged by this lab and as I've been praying about my focus for this year in our children's ministry it's to redefine what it means to be partnering with parents.
I am going to set a new goal to begin the process of negotiation with our parents and hopefully really develop the VIP program in my church.
Thanks Karl and others for challenging all of us to go deeper and to gain a more biblical model for ministry.
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PastorTom
Children's Pastor
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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Glen Woods wrote:
| They really do help Karl. I appreciate the effort you put into responding to my questions. I finally feel like I see a glimpse of hope for moving my church forward in this regard. I would like to interview you either via email or phone later this month or in October, as I interpret the findings of my qualitative research. Basically I would give you a synopsis of my findings and ask you if it matches your experience. It would be "on the record" for use in the dissertation. Are you open to that? Let me know if you are and I will make a note of it. Thanks! |
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I would be very open to it, and honored! But please, after Kid U, Oct. 1-4.  Lots to do until then! 
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zNyteAngel
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I just bought this Lab and WOW! Thanks for all the effort you put into this... definitely going to start implementing much of this when I come back on board in March. :)
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"and hope doesn't disappoint us for we have the power of the Holy Spirit within us" Romans 5:5
Bekah
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Glen Woods
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I agree with Bekah's comment. This idea is growing on me. I am praying about how to present it to the church so that it is workable.
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Glen Woods
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Break camp and advance....
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zNyteAngel
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Those of you that have implemented this lab into your church, how are things going for you? Can you give us a status?
__________________
"and hope doesn't disappoint us for we have the power of the Holy Spirit within us" Romans 5:5
Bekah
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Glen Woods
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Glen Woods wrote:
| I agree with Bekah's comment. This idea is growing on me. I am praying about how to present it to the church so that it is workable. |
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UPDATE: I am going to be presenting this idea to the people at my church on March 15. I am using the occasion of my oral dissertation presentation. I am scrapping the academic flavor of the gathering (with my advisor's blessing) and getting right down to application, partly in the form of V.I.P. This is with my pastor's blessing. I may need to tweak it a bit in order to better cooperate with what my pastor is trying to accomplish. He is positing the idea of three ten week negotiated time frames throughout the school year with the summer off, rather than a full year commitment. Sort of a bite-size initiative, as the year long may not fly in our context at this time. This is also to coordinate with some things he is going to be introducing on a broader scale in the church. As for my concerns about the additional time load and how that might scare some away, he has an idea about that, which unfortunately I do not yet have permission to share. But it is pretty major and represents a huge paradigm shift in structure and philosophy for my church.
I am very excited about this. In one sense I feel like I coulda done without the dissertation and just purchased Karl's lab to save time and effort. On the other hand, the dissertation process brought me to a point of being ready to jump into it whole-heartedly. Thank you Karl. God is using you to make a difference for many churches and struggling CP's like myself.
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Glen Woods
www.glenwoods.wordpress.com
Break camp and advance....
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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Glen Woods wrote:
| In one sense I feel like I coulda done without the dissertation and just purchased Karl's lab to save time and effort. |
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How, that has to be one of the best compliments I ever received! With your permission, I'd love to use that quote when encouraging others to check out the lab.
By the way, for those reading this thread, did you see my article in the Jan/Feb '09 issue of Children's Ministry Magazine? "The New Deal" - it was an honor to be included, and they did a fantastic job editing.
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SueBo
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It's a great article, I appreciated the honesty in it. I've been talking with my SP and trying to figure out what to do/how to work along side the parents in our church and neighborhood.
I'm curious about the Lab and how that works. Is it just something I download, maybe I should just look it up. Thanks for providing so many ideas.
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Glen Woods
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Karl, of course you can use it:) Just don't tell my church. They might get mad at me for doing my doctorate rather than simply getting the lab:) I will amend that the dissertation process put me in a frame of mind to be especially receptive to your ideas. I am very thankful for the work you have done and prayerful that I can present it and execute it in a way that is helpful for the parents in my church.
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Glen Woods
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vbscrazy
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I just finished the Lab. I loved it. Finally someone not only defined "partnering with parents" but also specifically told me how to go about partnering with parents. I knew there was more to this than take home sheets and parent newsletters. Thanks!!
I have done all the Labs so far and can't wait for the next one to be available. I am learning so much. I have a real direction now instead of just teaching a curriculum or planning events. Thanks so much Karl for pouring into our ministries.
Tammy
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vbscrazy
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Has anyone read the new State of the Church 2009 survey results? I think they are in Children's Ministry Magazine Jan/Feb issue. I got them in an email. The article for CM in entitled the State of Family Ministry by Christine Yount Jones.
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Serving Him and loving it!
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vbscrazy
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By the way the State of Family Ministry article is all about partnering with parents--what they think it is and what CM's think it is. Interesting and thought provoking reading.
Tammy
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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vbscrazy wrote:
| I just finished the Lab. I loved it. Finally someone not only defined "partnering with parents" but also specifically told me how to go about partnering with parents. I knew there was more to this than take home sheets and parent newsletters. Thanks!! I have a real direction now instead of just teaching a curriculum or planning events. Thanks so much Karl for pouring into our ministries. |
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Thank you so much for your encouragement! You made my day.
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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For those following this thread, here you can find a copy of my article in CM Mag as well as a PDF you can print out to share with others. I hope it stimulates good conversation!
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Glen Woods
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Just an update: I am introducing the concept and practice of VIP to my parents next Sunday, March 15. The plan is to implement it this coming Fall. :)
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Glen Woods
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Kidologist
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Karl Bastian
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Wow, that is so awesome to hear! Keep me posted along the way. And let me know if you need any help/input.
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Kidology Network Forum : Family Ministry
Topic: Lab #4: Partnering with Parents
