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Tannerman Administrator

Steve Tanner - Kidology Web Director
Joined: 12 August 2003 Location: United States Posts: 1428
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| Posted: 07 April 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged
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Lately, I've been doing some reading on the concepts of house or organic churches which (obviously) tend to be home-based with smaller groups of people. (Yeah, I've been reading Viola/Barna's Pagan Christianity?)
I was wondering if anyone had experiences with this type of setup, and if so, how did you handle the kid aspect?
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Glen Woods CP Team


Joined: 12 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 957
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| Posted: 07 April 2008 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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I think it would be very interesting to ask Mr. Barna this question both in light of his "Spiritual Champions" book and his work in the house church movement.
__________________ Glen Woods
www.glenwoods.wordpress.com
Break camp and advance....
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praiser Premium Member

Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 331
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| Posted: 07 April 2008 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
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My husband was intrigued with this concept about 6 years ago. He talked to an author who led him to contact a leader within the house church movement. It was a great conversation - but when my husband asked if the children joined in and made it family worship, he said that some of them did. When my husband asked what the others did, he said they didn't bring all the kids to the house church. He had several children himself, but didn't bring them when they met. The thought of any kind of children's ministry - or kids involved in the general ministry - seemed odd to him. We thought it was unfortunate there was not more teaching with either family together or the children. Hopefully, this is not indicative of all house churches.
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Glen Woods CP Team


Joined: 12 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 957
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| Posted: 07 April 2008 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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I spoke with a person last year who has a heavy emphasis on holistic home groups within a traditional church setting; sort of a step away from house churches. When I asked him this question last year, he basically shrugged. In his experience there really isn't much going on specifically for kids in the home group setting. Also, I didn't get the impression from him that he felt this was a problem. Notably, his church did have an active children's ministry on campus. My guess is that his perspective concerning involvement of kids in home group is more common than not in house churches, probably in part due to a reaction against campus-based ways of doing ministry. However, I have to believe and hope that someone out there is engaging in house church /home neighborhood group ministry in a way that includes children in holistic and integral ways. I am sure they exist. I just haven't found them yet.
__________________ Glen Woods
www.glenwoods.wordpress.com
Break camp and advance....
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Kidjoni CP Team

Joni Lum, Kidology Champion
Joined: 11 February 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 08 April 2008 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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I have a group that sends their kids to my friday night fellowship because their kids don't have enough friends in their small home church...it was a split off from another local church.
Personally, I question how it could work out for the kids, especially as they get older. jr hi, high school....if there aren't enough of them.
I'm always hopeful that their church friends would be their best friends, but without any kids their age, I don't think that would happen.
__________________ Connecting Kids to Jesus
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Guests Guest Group

Joined: 07 August 2003 Posts: 0
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| Posted: 08 April 2008 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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Here's a brief thought -
If the purpose and intent of house churches is to create a more holistic community that is intimately involved in the lives of those who are part - wouldn't the aspect of ministry to children be to incorporate them into the very practices and heartbeat of that house church?
So given that thought - I would wonder if the worship experiences that would reap the most harvest and benefit all at the same time would be to have an intergenerational service where children are a part of the worship from reading and interacting with scripture to being present during celebrations such as baptism and Lord's Supper.
What are your takes on this?
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Marharps Premium Member

Kidology Champion
Joined: 26 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 440
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| Posted: 08 April 2008 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
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A friend of mine has been invited to do the children's ministry at the House 2 House National Convention every year.
He says it is a movement that is growing, but they really don't have anything going on for the kids.
__________________ Mark
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Guests Guest Group

Joined: 07 August 2003 Posts: 0
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| Posted: 08 April 2008 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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That to me is a red flag - I would be concerned as a minister or a parent if there was not some aspect of ministry to children that was being addressed. Perhaps that is a by product of not wanting to be similar to an established church organization. Yet it does send a very strong message that children are not a part of the equation.
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Marharps Premium Member

Kidology Champion
Joined: 26 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 440
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| Posted: 08 April 2008 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
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The impression I got from John was not that they weren't concerned about kids. It was more like they just didn't know how to reach kids. They were asking John a lot of questions, so that is a sign that they want to learn. He felt like there was a real market out there to produce curriculum specifically for home churches.
__________________ Mark
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Hoick Premium Member


Joined: 13 February 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 274
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| Posted: 09 April 2008 at 1:20am | IP Logged
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Man, just read through this conversation.
I would have thought the opposite. A well developed theology of integrating kids into a house church setting... maybe they have some ideas in Chinese house churches... or any where there is persecution and house churches are the norm and not the exception???
Dave
__________________ David Wakerley
Dave's Blog
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Gearhead Group Member

Joined: 18 August 2003 Location: United States Posts: 4
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| Posted: 09 April 2008 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
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I was a member of a house church from the late 1970's into the 80's... and am currently thinking seriously about re-entering that form and structure again. We included our children in our worship times, as well as had "special" educational activities for them lead by adults within the same house. Infants were cared for by their parents and removed if they became a distraction. I really do not see a problem with the "house church" model, and the need to minister to and educate children. I think the philosophy of the church needs to be: equipping parents to be the primary ministers to their children, and to support and encourage them as an entire Body.
Randal Birkey
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Marharps Premium Member

Kidology Champion
Joined: 26 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 440
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| Posted: 09 April 2008 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
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So Steve, What's your take on Pagan Christianity? Is it worth reading?
__________________ Mark
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Tannerman Administrator

Steve Tanner - Kidology Web Director
Joined: 12 August 2003 Location: United States Posts: 1428
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| Posted: 10 April 2008 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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Marharps wrote:
| So Steve, What's your take on Pagan Christianity? Is it worth reading? |
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I'm about halfway through the book now. A friend of mine encouraged me to read it (he's been blogging his reactions)
I would definitely say that yes, this is a book to check out. Let me preface that by saying that part of my motivation for reading this book has to do with developments at my church, so my opinion is probably biased in that sense. But it does present a pretty interesting take on the whole "how do we do church thing?"
If you take Viola/Barna at word (and given the amount of research and footnotes, easy to be swayed that way), it pretty much exposes much of what we do here in "church" as having nothing to do with the 1st Century/New Testament experience.
It's quite a challenging read, and has you yelling at the book with comments like, "yeah, but, what about _____" and "but I see nothing wrong with doing it that way".
I'm not a children's pastor (just your friendly web guy who lives in this virtual world with you guys and gals daily), and the book doesn't pertain directly to CM (but you can pull concepts from it, like the question I posted to start this thread), but I would definitely encourage a read if you can sneak it into your valued time.
Heck, it's worth it for the graphic design and layout alone... very sharp looking!
- Steve
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eriepastor7638 Premium Member


Joined: 30 November 2005 Posts: 382
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| Posted: 10 April 2008 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
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Tanner,
Jim Palmer, who wrote the forward to my book Divine Intention leads a organic web of relationships in Nashville. In his book Divine Nobodies he discusses that they worked with an Institional church to get the use the facilities to once a week work their children through the Good Shepherd Curriculum.
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athomedonna Premium Member

Joined: 24 February 2005 Posts: 7
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| Posted: 14 April 2008 at 5:50pm | IP Logged
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I think the philosophy of the church needs to be: equipping parents to be the primary ministers to their children, and to support and encourage them as an entire Body
I was also a product of a house church growing up. When I was a child, there was a Sunday School time provided each week for my sister and myself, but otherwise, we were expected to be with the adults all of the time. By the time we became teenagers, there were other teens in the church and a monthly fellowship time was provided, plus we were allowed to participate in another church's youth group.
The idea at the time, and I think still is because my parents are still very much involved in a house church, is that parents are responsible for the spiritual growth of their children, and that happens within the home not in a church setting.
I have always been ambivalent about my experience growing up because to me, from a child's perspective, church was never a positive experience. It was boring and for adults, and not for kids. The teaching was always deep and over our heads- our favorite time was when missionaries would come because we knew then that we would be able to enjoy and understand what was being said.
My siblings and I all left the church (universal) when we went to college because of our negative experiences growing up, but through the grace of God we each came back to a strong walk with the Lord later on.
I think that it all comes down to what I see discussed often. Parents are responsible for the spiritual welfare of their children. I think my role is to come alongside parents to equip, and supplement what is being taught at home, and to let the children know that our church is their church too-not just for their parents.
Donna
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